222 - STOP Judging People Who “Don’t Look Disabled” with Jennifer Chassman Browne & Hope Demetriades
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Goodpods In this episode of The Inclusive Dad podcast, host AAron talks with author and disability advocate Jenn Chassman Browne and artist, educator, and activist Hope Demetriades about the power of stories to create understanding and inclusion. Jenn shares her book See Us, Know Us: Profiles of Disability, featuring 30 people with diverse disabilities and identities. Hope discusses living with an invisible disability, the challenges of being misunderstood, and why curiosity is more powerful than judgment. They explore accessibility, inclusive education, neurodiversity, allyship, and the importance of listening to people’s lived experiences. This conversation reminds us that inclusion begins when we slow down, listen, and see people for who they are.
Key Takeaways:
Stories Build Understanding — Personal stories can help people move past defensiveness and connect with the lived experiences of people with disabilities.
Invisible Disabilities Matter — Someone who looks completely able-bodied may be experiencing significant pain or navigating challenges others simply cannot see.
Curiosity Beats Judgment — Inclusion means being curious about differences rather than making assumptions, judging, or automatically deciding what someone needs.
Rethink Education — Better disability awareness and teacher training can help schools recognize individual needs and create more genuinely inclusive classrooms.
Allyship Requires Action — Understanding disability should lead to meaningful action, advocacy, accommodations, and a commitment to ensuring disabled people have a seat at the table.
Hope Demetriades’ definition of inclusion:
Inclusion is approaching others with curiosity rather than fear and judgment.
Hope Demetriades’ Bio:
Hope Demetriades is an artist, educator, and activist whose work explores abolition, social justice, and inclusion. Living with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, a connective tissue disorder, Hope brings personal experience and advocacy to conversations about invisible disabilities, accessibility, and the importance of understanding that people’s needs aren’t always visible. She is passionate about helping educators recognize and support different ways people learn, move, and participate. Through her art and advocacy, Hope encourages people to approach differences with curiosity rather than fear or judgment—and to be slow to judge what they cannot see.
Connect with Hope Demetriades:
Website: https://www.hopedemetriades.com/
Connect with Jennifer Chassman Browne:
Website: https://jenniferchassmanbrowne.com/
SPAM© Count:
Host:
Yes
Current Guest:
Yes
Cumulative Guest Stats:
Yes - 97
No - 123
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New Ground Educational Consulting
Jenn has lived with Rheumatoid Arthritis since she was six years old.
For most of her professional life, she has been an English teacher and school leader, and has loved the time that she spent with the teenagers that she taught, many of whom she still has in her life.
In her work as a DEI and Disability Advocate, Jenn educates people about the strengths and gifts that people with disabilities have. She also helps people to understand that those living with disabilities need allies, systems, and structures that ensure their access and inclusion.
Jenn has also earned certification as a listener poet and is invested in using poetry and storytelling to help build connections between people and to aid in the development of empathy, understanding, and belonging.
Jenn is a keynote speaker and writer. She has also written a book, See US, Know Us; Profiles of Disability which is available for pre-order and will be out in October 2026.
Artist - Educator - Activist
Hope Demetriades is an artist, educator, and activist whose work explores abolition, social justice, and inclusion. Living with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, a connective tissue disorder, Hope brings personal experience and advocacy to conversations about invisible disabilities, accessibility, and the importance of understanding that people’s needs aren’t always visible. She is passionate about helping educators recognize and support different ways people learn, move, and participate. Through her art and advocacy, Hope encourages people to approach differences with curiosity rather than fear or judgment—and to be slow to judge what they cannot see.
